The program you are talking about is an OEM (and slightly cut down) version of Sonic Primetime. It is available in the extras folder on the MCE2005 3 pack. It is also available across the web. Do a search on google for SonicEncoders.msi.

Just install install it and MCE will magically display the most coveted option to burn video DVDs that will play in any DVD player. IT works very well - no problems yet with over 100 shows recorded so far. It will even prompt you to compress a recorded show if it is too large to fit on the disk. You are prompted to add as many shows as you want that can fit on one disk. It will create nice DVD menus for use at play time just like any store bought DVD movie. And best of all - it runs completely within the MCE interface with your remote control. No mouse or keyboard needed.

What is missing, is the ability change the look and feel of the menus. Also missing is the ability to edit the show before burning - such as to remove non-show content (ie. advertisments) that appears before during and after the main show.

I'm not sure if Sonic Primetime (the retail product) has these capabilities. I believe Sonic MyDVD can do most of this - however MyDVD requires a mouse and keyboard and runs outside of the MCE interface.

 

Ahh yes, the "holy grail" of MCE... Recording TV to DVD.  Should be easy, no?  NOT!  I've been tinkering with this subject for a while and have the following observations.  I have not user SonicPrimetime.  If soumeone can draw comparisons to the below and add it on, go right ahead please!

A - NerVision Express.
Advantages: 
1 - Burn direct from dvr-ms to DVD, no sweat.
2 - Offers an interface to edit the item first

Disavantages:
1 - I've yet to be able to burn a DVD of what I would consider decent quality.  I always record on the "best" setting, and when converting and burning with NVE3, it generally compresses it too much and makes it look like crap.  There may be a way to get this to convert better, but I have not found it...which brings me to point 2...
2 - Horrible user interface.  Come on guys, how about a frame by frame advancement option when editing.  Also, if you make one small screw up, it has a habbit of re-ordering your segments, and doing other weirdness.  Generally, the interface for editing SUCKS.
3 - Not free!  You'd think that with the above shortcomings, they'd throw this to us as a free add-on or something. 

B - TMPGEnc Express 3.1 (3.0 does not support dvr-ms)
Advantages:
1 - Great user interface
2 - Wonderful editing features (Ahead could learn something here for their next NeroVision product.)  Frame by frame advancement, easy to understand cut functions, etc.  I loved this product.
3 - Support not just for dvr-ms, but all kinds of files and converting.  Just a great tool!
4 - Control over quality of the output.  I've been able to make some great DVDs of movies I've recorded with MCE using this product.  Again, Ahead, take notice!

Disadvantages:
1 - Not free...quite costly as a matter of fact, all things considered.
2 - Add on required for DVD editing due to the AC3 audio stream.  You've got to be kidding me!?  You can't make that part of the product rather than tap me for another $30?
3 - Very resource intensive and time consuming.  Don't plan on sitting there watching these convert.  Best if done before bed and then just queue up a batch.  By the time you get home from work the next day, you'll have some VIDEO_TS directories to burn.

C - Sonic Encoders
Advantages:
1 - Free (you can find them on the web as per the prior post.  I believe they're free!)
2 - Support within the MCE interface.  Just click Create DVD/CD from the MCE interface, select the files, drop a blank in and away you go!
3 - Pretty quick about burning.
4 - Very very very easy to use.

Disadvantages:
1 - No editing at all.  You burn what you recorded...period
2 - Quality of resulting burns os somewhat lacking.
3 - No menu options.  All the DVDs you make will have the same blue MCE Background with the title there.  Take it or lea...err, no, wait, you can't leave it....it puts it there, period!

Conclusion:
Different needs will dictate which choice you make.  For those items that I just want to drop on DVD for someone, for example, a friend of mine missed 24 last week.  I dropped a blank DVD in my machine, went into MCE told it to make the DVD (using the Sonic encoders) and within about an hour, I had the DVD burned.  He can live with the bad quality and having to fast forward through the commercials (nice friend I am, huh!)  So, for things like that, you can't beat the Sonic Encoders.
However, after recording A Bugs Life the other week, I wanted to hack the commercials and create a DVD from it for my collection.  Using NeroVision Express, I screwed up a few times, started over from scratch, etc.  Upon completion, I ended up with a sub-par quality DVD.  I sat down later on with TMPGEnc Express 3.1, went through the same excercise and ended up with a very good DVD.  However, my trial has expired for the shareware version of it, and I'm not about to plunk down that cash for it.  Just not worth it.

For everyday use, just use the Sonic Encoders.  If you're a power user, and don't mind dropping a few bucks, get TMPGEnc.  If poor video quality and a bad user interface is worth paying for, then by all means, get NeroVision Express!

 

---

Ghostlobster
Very happy convert to SageTV! Finally, watching ESPN-HD in real HD on my HTPC without having to deal with the CableCARD fiasco!

This is all true, however, if you use MyDVD and record to a folder- not directly to disk (with the DL 8.5Gb DVD type disk selected) you can get a lot more onto the DVD...because...

All you have to do is use the FREE DVDShrink to make it a 4.5Gb disk size.

All the DVD's I've created in MC work on ALL my DVD players (including PS2)...

Seemed to have double-posted... see next post

-- D

When I first tried burning or archiving TV shows/Movies etc onto DVD, or for storage-sake from MCE, I gave up rather quickly and was left frustrated. 'Twas a long tedious process. I have since come up with a gameplan dependent upon the situation. Either archiving TV shows or getting a movies onto DVD.

A) Archiving TV Shows (i.e., multiple episodes of a TV show & Stripping away commercials) — For this I use dCut. A program that lets you edit out the commercials from a DVR-MS file while sitting on the couch using the remote. It then turns the resultant DVR-MS file into a .WMV. As a comparison; a one-hour episode of AMERICAN CHOPPER as a DVR-MS is approx. 3.4Gb. Once edited and saved-out as a .WMV file it is approx. 550Mb. (The metatag info is also retained inside the resultant .WMV so that the episode info/description is there). I usually throw these files back up to a Network Video share so that I can watch the TV episodes whenever, and I can also back-up to a data DVD as WMV format. Advantage??? Smaller size, can fit at least 2 to 3 times more episodes onto a data DVD than with the regular DVR-MS files. And, if needed, I can still create a DVD to watch on a standard DVD player using these very same WMVs. I don't forsee a pressing need, since the MCE is my video player, but I can, if need be. Also, dCut uses a queue-based system where you can crunch through many many episodes one-after-the-other, editing-out the commercials and in the background, dCut will do the processing while you can still watch TV, record TV, edit more commercials, play music etc. dCut works in the background so as to not tie-up your precious Media Center while it does the work — HUGE ADVANTAGE!!!

B) Squeezing a Movie Larger than 4.7Gb onto a 4.7GB DVD — Most recorded DVR-MS movies are > 4.7Gb and do not fit onto a standard DVD (*NOTE: 4.7GB is actually 4.3Gb once you do the 1024 bits-per-byte conversion). Last nite I squeezed the movie BACK TO SCHOOL onto a regular 4.7Gb DVD (DVD+R5). Ahead Software (makers of Nero) upgraded their Nero application a couple of days ago. Current version is 6.6.06. I had an OEM version of Nero Express installed (v.6.3.01), a streamlined version of the Burning ROM package. I upgraded the main app to the current 6.6.06 version and also installed one of the other optional packages as well. Namely, package #2 which contains a program called RECODE2. Basically, from the main interface, you can drag a DVR-MS file into your "project" and the app will prompt you with a dialog saying something like, "Your file is bigger than a standard DVD, do you want to re-encode the sucker to fit onto a 4.7Gb DVD?" and once you say yes, it tells you the resultant bit rate and size. You then follow the bouncing balls hitting next etc, picking your menu buttons, or skipping a main menu altogether etc, design your interface; I usually pick the optin to just play the friggin' movie when the DVD is inserted and bypass all menus. To my surprise, between re-encoding and burning the entire movie to a standard DVD took about one hour and twenty minutes.

In the past trying to do these tasks were near impossible. The best possible scenario I had used was CyberLink's PowerDirector3 which read the native DVR-MS file and ripped it to .MPG real fast. But once I wanted to get my edited video onto DVD, every package I tried was so darn slow, especially the Sonic crap, which only worked some of the time. I am very very very very delighted with the new NERO stuff and dCut is just THE BEST!!!!

Just my $.02 from someone who has tried most everything out there. I own a copy of PowerDirector3, MyDVD Deluxe, Sonic PrimeTime Deluxe and found that the free stuff works alot better. I used to be a devout PowerDirector3 and DVD Shrink supporter, but I have since jumped the fence to these apps because of ease-of-use and speed. If you have a copy of Nero, UPGRADE to ver 6.6.06 and get package #2 for the RECODE2 application, and dCut is a MUST for editing from the couch!!

-- Dondi

I have a few questions regarding this:

Anyone know the internal format difference between .DVR-MS and .WMV files?

I believe the DVR-MS file is really a MPEG2 file with added metadata, while the WMV file is a proprietary Microsoft compressed format similiar to DIVX/MPEG4. Since WMV files retain metadata (show name and info), why did Microsoft create two seperate formats?

If I have my shows converted to WMV format (via dCUT - see previous post), will I lose the ability to burn to DVD via the sonicencoders.msi (basically Sonic Primetime) tool within the MCE interface?

Will the shows in WMV format show up on the MCE menu under Recorded TV or MyVideos?

Do all of the navigation functions work the same for WMV files as they do for DVR-MS file (FF, Skip, RW, etc)?

Thanks for your help!

I own PrimeTime (as well as MyDVD Deluxe), but have not installed it on my current MCE setup. BUT, I did install the SonicEncoders.msi file that will enable you to burn a real DVD from within MCE. In fact, that is the ONLY Sonic-anything I have on my machine. (I am biased against Sonic's stuff -- my personal opinion is that Sonic's software is just outright unreliable). With that being said, I am currently burning a DVD of 4 episodes of American Chopper at this very moment (as a video DVD not a data DVD).

I used dCut to edit the commercials and save to a folder named 'EDITED' in .WMV format within my RECORDEDTV folder.

In MCE, under MyVideo, I added that same folder 'EDITED', to be watched by MyVideo, which has now become my local "working" folder.

I popped-in a DVD, used the remote to navigate to MyVideo, selected the 'EDITED' folder and saw my American Chopper .WMV files sitting there. I clicked on CREATE CD/DVD on the left and it prompted me by saying its too large etc. for the DVD, I said OK to using HIGH format or something like that and also deselected a few episodes so that I could fit a total of 4 episodes onto the DVD. Each episode is approx. 42 minutes.

As for the navigation???? Its a real DVD, so the source being .WMV or DVR-MS is not relevant and the navigation is like any other DVD video. 

I burned the movie EASY MONEY to DVD the other day by using Ahead's Nero Express (with 6.6.06 upgrade & Package #2 update with RECODE2) to edit the in- and out-points (when you schedule a cable movie, theres usually a bunch of trailers etc after the end of the movie until the next movie comes on) and then Ahead Nero's RECODE2 to compress and then burned straight out to DVD all in one shot. Total production time was under an hour and twenty minutes between editing, compressing and burning to final DVD, although it was not inside the MCE interface, it was still a painless exercise.

And I'll venture a guess as to why the 2 formats... I think M$ was trying to keep DVR-MS files proprietary to MCE simply because it was dealing with a format whereby the copyright issue could get a bit sticky; DVR-MS is a format that the MCE owner utilizes to record broadcast & copyrighted media. I think M$ wanted to ensure that, unlike the .WMV format (which is already a freely-distributable file format), that the recorded file couldnt be easily traded, downloaded, streamed, etc. Just MHO on that M$ stuff.

-- Dondi

Umm it is a piece of cake to make DVD compliant DVD's.

Sonic Primetime does it right though the MCE interface.

Choose My Programs....Primetime.....check the shows you want...hit OK....come back in 30 minutes

reading the above I most certinly want to get dCut for Media Center Edition
http://www.inseattle.org/~dan/Dcut.htm  however the link is dead could anyone post or point me to the app somewhere else?

---

Jeremy

-----------

MCE 2005
Pock

dCut?  Ask and you shall receive......

http://www.inseattle.org/~dan/Dcut.htm

In response to this posting, I reinstalled Sonic PrimeTime and gave it another look. I have since uninstalled after checking it out. Yes, it is simple within the MCE interface if certain criteria is met.

If you are burning a movie, it needs to be a very very very very very short movie and you need to have initially burned it at a lower quality than BEST, otherwise it will never fit on a standard DVD, as PrimeTime does not prompt you with an option to re-encode to a lower bitrate.

If you are burning multiple episodes of a TV show, the previous still applies. Also, PrimeTime doesn't allow for edited DVR-MS files to be burned as far as I can tell, so you are stuck with fewer episodes and commercials.

I also couldnt get PrimeTime to recognize .WMV files, so edited & compressed files seem to not work with PrimeTime. So, yeah, PrimeTime is a simple application, yet I havent been able to use it successfully for any real-world application in relation to the Recorded files that I have.

The SonicEncoders.msi file on the otherhand is actually so much more useful and actually works!!! Everyone should have this installed. If you dont have it, find it; I think there's a link somewhere in this thread. Using the CREATE CD/DVD option inside MCE launches what the SonicEncoders.msi installer installs..... You select your shows (.WMV or DVR-MS) from either MyVideos or RecordedTV, basically anywhere, and hit MAKE DVD and it will prompt you with an option to re-encode to a lower bitrate if you've gone over the DVD capacity. Much more user-friendly and FREE!!!!!!!!

-- Dondi

I've tried 13 different version of DVD burning software so far (still searching) and THE ONLY one that has worked consistantly well (good quality, good menu authoring capabilities, audio that's in sync, doesn't crash) is Arcsoft's ShowBiz DVD 2.  You can download it from their site and use the full function 15 day trial (I have 2 days left).

I have burned 22 discs (movies I've recorded) with it so far and have had NO problems with quality or sync.  It has a setting for variable bit-rate (which improved the quality somewhat) and an auto-fit feature.  You can set the beginning and end of your video easily (but not crop out comercials).

Disadvantage: It's slow.  You have to import the video- it takes about 5 to 10 minutes to convert to MPEG.  To process and burn takes about the same amount of time as the length of video (2 hour movie means 2 hour create time).  (Using my P4 2.8 Hyperthread laptop, 1Gig Memory, USB2.0 HD)

It doesn't support widescreen yet (unless you use another prog to add the bars at top and bottom to the source video file).

-Dishtoad

Thats very interesting feedback.

I have had minimal success with editing using NeroVision and PowerDirector due to sync problems. It you dont cut the file - just process it, it seems close to good sync. But if you cut it - remove commercials, the sync always seems to be fairly bad.

I mostly record TV shows of 1 hour duration - classics on scifi channel - twilight zones, etc. I would like to cut the commericials and place up to 4 shows on one DVD.

Another problem i have is that scifi channel dosnt honor posted broadcast times very well. So on many occasions the shows start and stop before and after the posted time. (theres no way to adjust for it because it seems very random). This leaves me with back to back broadcasts with parts of one episode prefixed/suffixed to another. I need to be able to cut these pieces and reassemble them properly.

Hey Moon, if you haven't already, check-out dCut (FREE app). AbsoluuuuUUUUuuutely a must-have for editing TV shows from the couch with the remote and simple as pie. Just scrub-through each episode setting the in- and out-points for each segment, then hit COMPRESS SEGMENTS and you get a nifty .WMV file which you can then either just keep on your system (about one-fifth the original DVR-MS size), or turn around and gang-up a bunch of edited episodes and hit CREATE CD/DVD within MCE (provided that the SonicEncoders.msi (again, FREE) package has been installed; this package adds the ability to re-encode/squeeze video onto the DVD).

-- Dondi