Hi all my name is Chas, and I am a High-def-a-holic.
I'd like share my experiences with my M780 card so far. I've had it in about a week now, but first I want to say what a great website and great thread!
I've done quite a bit and I have lots to say. Hopefully somebody might benefit from what I've observed. I'll save my questions for the end. :)
I built my htpc using Asus P5Q-E w/ 4GB 1066Mhz DDR2, Intel Core 2 Quad 2.4GHz, Radeon HD3650, AVerTV Combo PCI-E x1TV Tuner, and Vista x64. I use the Sony/Phillips Digital Inferface on the mobo for audio out to my receiver.
Like several people here, figuring out how to make both tuners of the card work under Vista MC was a bit challenging. I actually have over 45 hours in on just seeing which software configuration works the best.
Thanks to Felix's post, I was able to set the card up using ClearQAM Utility Manual 1.4.pdf, M780_AVer_Drv_x64_V2.5.64.29_Install.zip, and AVer_ClearQAM_V1.0.0.10_Install.zip. (basically what is discussed in this thread)
After a bit of tweaking in Vista MC (specifically, removing channels that did not work), I now have flawless ATSC/QAM working, and not so great looking, but yet functional, analog tuner content.
As a side note: if your ClearQAM Utility is not getting all your channels that you feel you should be getting, or if you are getting choppy video, test the signal strength of your cable line. I do not know what the required Signal to Noise Ratio is for the M780, but if you are going through one too many splitters, as I did initially, you might get the symptoms I just mentioned. Ideally, you should have 1 splitter outside your house or apartment, and all of your lines come from that high-quality splitter to their terminating node. In the real world this isn't always possible, so use high-quality splitters and cable.
Possible bug in VistaMC + workaround: I'll point out here that if you are using this card under Vista Media Center x64 with both tuners enabled, and you edit channels in VMC, and happen to tune into a channel that does not work while scrolling through the list, and leave the Edit Channels page with that channel tuned, you maybe unable to see ANY channels at all, until you go back into "Edit Channels" and tune into a channel that works and then exit that page. This is likely a bug in VMC, but the workaround was painless enough.
I did try the "aforementioned TV pack" prior to the ClearQAM Utility procedure detailed in this thread and it worked, but I was no longer able to use any of the AverMedia software anymore. This included the AVerMC and ClearQAM Utility. Both apps would just start up and immediately crash. So I rolled back the whole OS to a prior state using Ghost. As far as I could tell, the only difference with using the TV pack and not using the TV pack with the M780 and VMC is better reporting of the fact that it sees both tuners, ordering of the Wizard applets, and whether or not VMC does the ATSC/QAM channel search or not. Im sure the TV pack has other stuff, but it is not required in order to get Analog + Digital ATSC/QAM working with the M780.
Given the nature of how MMC/VMC works, I do not believe it is possible to use the S-Video / Composite ports of the card without an MMC/VMC compatible IR Receiver. This is one area I have not spent much time on, but would love to hear about solutions that get around this, if there are any.
AVerMC bug + workaround I am using AVer's MCS. AVerMCS allows you to play live, record, and play back, from its S-Video, Composite, Analog Tuner, and ATSC Tuner. The workflow in AVerMCS is reasonable. If you want to try it be sure to get the latest beta version which corrects a lock-up bug with APM Stand-by and Hibernate. Using the beta, AVerMCS 1.7.2 [Build 08052801] you can schedule recordings and then put your PC to sleep.
As per AVerMedia tech support, the AVerTV product is no longer being developed and use the beta AVerMCS product.
Some drawbacks with AVerMCS as of this post 8/28/2008
There is a bug with multiple recording schedules that put the PC to sleep (stand-by) after recording, where the first recording works fine, but subsequent recordings just go right into stand-by instead of doing the recording. the workaround is to set the schedule config to exit the app rather than go into stand-by, leaving it up to the OS to put the PC to sleep. Not a serious drawback.
I'll mention now that AVerMedia has a good support team. They have been responsive on their question board on the support site and as an IT guy for over 15 years, I can tell this company cares about the quality of their products. (I actually got an e-mail from them during writing this post regarding a correction to the scheduled recording/standby after recording issue.
Quality Issue This is a bit more serious- When viewing content, live or recorded, in AVerMC, I get "tearing" about 2/3 the way down the window. This does not happen in VistaMC which tells me this is not a driver issue, but an application issue. I've reported this issue and they said to expect a fix over the next few weeks. I feel it is a renderer issue.
Quality Issue The analog tv tuner quality is not that great in either VistaMC or AVerMCS. The S-video is decent. There are artifacts and motion is blocky. I've inspected the signal to noise ratio on my cable lines and they run > 35dB which Comcast has stated to be what is required for a clear picture. The analog channels arent perfect even with the Scientific Atlanta 3250HD cable box, but that is more of a symptom of me becoming addicted to Digital and High-Def and less of an issue of a signal problem.
I loaded up the following filters in graphedit and notice that this analog tuner problem does not seem to occur there, so this tells me that some noise correction or deinterlacing filter is adversely affecting analog tuner-based picture quality. I believe somebody else here mentioned that they felt that the noise reduction was too aggressive. I agree with them.
AVerMedia M780 PCIe TV-Tuner
AVerMedia M780 PCIe Crossbar
AVerMedia M780 PCIe Capture
Video Renderer (the one with the MERIT_PREFERRED value.)
Using graphedit, the analog tuner quality is identical to what my cable box produces. I would like to see this quality in either VistaMC or AVerMC. As a side note, in AVerTV6, if you disabled the "Video Quality Enhancement" feature, this problem did not seem to be present.
As far as I can tell the latest x64 driver works as expected. I have no hardware related problems when engaging the card from either VistaMC or AVerMCS and doing other stuff, but then again, its only been a week.
Minor Issue Given that I have already reported a couple minor and some more serious stuff to AVerMedia, I have not yet mentioned that the sound level in ATSC tuner and analog audio-in is lower than I'd like it to be. This is minor given that my receiver has a volume button, but it does make me adjust levels on the sound card, and in the AVerMCS software or VistaMC software when going from the various signal inputs. I do not consider this to be serious, but more of an inconvenience.
My overall rating for this product is good. I'd give ..
- the hardware and driver a 9.5 out of 10 ( no problems to date, with heat or otherwise)
- the AVerMCS a 6.5 out of 10 for live viewing. (bonus points included for a great PiP)
- the AVerMCS a 9 out of 10 for video / audio capture. (all recordings using AVerMCS produce visually equivalent quality as what you see during liveTV and the file management workflow is convenient.)
- The iPOD recordings have been magnificent. 10 out of 10.
- Viewing QAM channels in VistaMC. 10 out of 10 (Nearly flawless- visually identical to the quality my Sony Bravia tuner produces as well as the Scientific Atlanta cable box produces) There is a delay when changing channels, but there is as well with the cable box and TV so no points deducted there :)
What I'd like to see from this product is two things:
- Better software handling of the analog tv tuner. I can understand some of the factors involved regarding low resolution field based video, but this issue, I believe, is software level and needs attention.
- Better rendering in general in the AVerMCS product. The difference in rendering quality between AVerMCS and VistaMC is profound.
As a not so important 3rd item, perhaps a way to amplify digital audio in realtime.
Aside from that, I am basically happy with the card. I can't say I am so thrilled that I am not tempted to try another brand to compare, but I won't be sending the card back as it does some useful things well.
Now my questions :)
1) Is there a way to configure a channel in VistaMC to use the S-video port of the M780. It just seems to be there should be considering that the Auto TV Signal Wizard actually shows me that it can activate the card and display the video from the S-video and furthermore prompts me to tell it if I see the video, (which i can), but when it finds that I do not have an IR receiver attached, the configuration goes no further and I cant use the S-video. This is totally nuts if you asked me. Its just one of those things where "there has to be a way"...
I realize that the S-video occupies the analog portion of the card and that would mean that VistaMC would have no know not to try to tune analog channels, but seriously, how hard is that to implement given what the gain would be?
2) Assuming that there is no way, what kind of IR receiver should I be looking at for use with VistaMC and what exactly does it allow you to do beyond what a wireless programmable keyboard already gives you?
3) Is anybody using the TV pack and able to use their AVerMedia software? If so, how did you manage that? :)
4) Last but not least, is anybody not having any of the issues I have described? I'd be interested in hearing about your configuration and workarounds.
That's it and thank you reading the lengthy post and thanks for this website.
Best Regards.